Kodaikanal Interview on the Mind

The first spiritual teaching Sri Sathya Sai Baba is reputed to have given to the world was at the age of 14 years when he left his home and took a seat on a boulder outside his Puttaparthi village. It was at that boulder (which would later mark one of the boundaries of his vast desert Ashram), that Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai sang: 

Manasa Bhajorey Guru Charanam 

Dusthara Bhava Sagara Tharanam 

Guru Maharaj Guru Jai Jai 

Sai Natha Sad Guru Jai Jai 

Om Namah Shivaya, Om Namah Shivaya, 

Om Namah Shivaya, Shivaya Namah 

Om Arunachala Shiva, Arunachala Shiva, 

Arunachala Shiva Aruna Shiv Om 

Omkaram Baba, Omkaram Baba, 

Omkaram Baba Om Namo Baba 

"O mind, worship the Lotus Feet of your God and Supreme Teacher that will take you safely across the ocean of life and death. Victory to our Lord and supreme Teacher, Sai Nath! 

Mind, also chant and worship; the Divine name of Lord Shiva and Arunachala mountain (which is no different to Shiva) and Baba whose form is OM." 

In this bhajan Bhagavan exhorts devotees to worship the feet of the spiritual preceptor and explains that there is no difference between the Pranava Om (which pervades the Universe), Arunachala and the Lord. Bowing to one is as bowing to all. 

Since that early age of 14 years and his first teaching, Sri Sathya Sai Baba often encouraged, suggested and even ordered devotees to come to Arunachala. As well as his love of this Holy Place, Sri Sathya Sai Baba often guided people (as did Ramana Maharshi) in the method of Self Enquiry. 

 "All agitation will cease the moment one enters on the enquiry. 'Who am I?' This was the sadhana that Ramana Maharshi achieved and taught to his disciples. This is also the easiest of all disciplines." [Sri Sathya Sai Baba] 

The following is the transcript of an interview given by Sri Sathya Sai Baba to Western Devotees at Kodaikanal on April 1st, 1985. The interview is particularly relevant to devotees of Arunachala, as it explores the nature of consciousness and exhorts sadhakas to practice self enquiry. 

Interview given by Sathya Sai Baba at Kodaikanal April 1, 1985 

Devotee: Swami, what is the best way to relate to the world?

Baba: Do not spend your time thinking about the world or your relationships to individuals. These are all impermanent. They have only to do with the body. The body is just a water bubble. The mind is like a mad monkey. Do not follow either the body or the mind. Follow the Self, the Atma. It is beyond the mind. It is permanent. It is the unchanging truth within you. 

Most important, do not ever think that you and God are separate. Think always, "God is with me; He is inside me; He is around me. All there is is God. I myself am God. I am the Infinite, the Eternal. I am not two; I am one, only one. There is no one else besides me. I and God are one and the same." 

To realize this Unity, the first step is to develop self-confidence. It comes when you realize that God is not outside of you. Self-confidence means thinking all the time, "God is in me... God is doing everything... without God I cannot be... all this is God... I only want to think of God." When there is self-confidence then there will be love, there will be peace, there will be truth, there will be God. Without self-confidence there cannot be God. So, first there must be self-confidence and love of God. 

Devotee: Swami, how to do we rise up to that highest level?

Baba: Through love. Only through love. Develop divine love. Divine love is completely selfless. Human love is mostly selfishness; all the time it thinks only of the little 'i'. That 'i' is the ego. The ego is a very bad quality. Ego sees everything as separate; it sees everything as dual. You must remove this ego and see only the Unity. Think only of Unity; think only of the Atma. Atma is the one unchanging Truth, the one Reality that is the basis of everything. 

Devotee: Swami, is everything predetermined? 

Baba: For the Atma there is no time and there is no form. It is beyond time and beyond form. In the Atma all are one. Remember that Unity. Live in that Unity. Make that your goal. All are one... be alike to everyone. 

Devotee: Baba, what is the relationship between the Atma and the individual? 

Baba: The Atma is everywhere. But, do you know that? No, you do not know. What you say now all comes from your imagination. You have no experience. Do some Sadhana. Realize the Atma! Always think like that... "I am the Atma. I am all." The individual exists only in your imagination. It is just an illusion. When the Atma is one without a second, when the Atma is everywhere, where is the individual? Only in your imagination. The Atma alone is real. Realize it through meditation. 

Devotee: Then there is really no higher being related to this body, judging me and guiding me? 

Baba: You see, you are still in 100% body consciousness. Do not stay with this body consciousness. Remove that. What will remain will be Atma-consciousness. Then there will be no anger, no hatred, no envy, no jealousy, no hunger, no desire... only complete Ananda... only bliss, bliss, bliss! 

Devotee: But then, Swami, what is reborn in reincarnation? 

Baba: The body is born. Birth and death only have to do with the body. Ego also relates only to the body. Similarly, reincarnation relates only to the body. Do not think of the body. Think of the Atma. The Atma is one; it is unchanging. For Atma there is no incarnation, there is no reincarnation. 

Devotee: Swami, do I exist at all as an individual? 

Baba: When you realize the Atma then there is no individual. You can think of individuals as different light bulbs. There will be a differences in wattage and in color. There will be differences in shape, but everywhere the current is the same. That current is who you are. You are not the individual bulb. You are the one current in all. 

Devotee: Is there any difference between I and God? 

Baba: You are God. You are not the ego. You are God! Devotee: I am God? 

Baba: Yes. You are the Atma. You are permanent. The physical is not permanent. The physical is not the Atma. You are the Atma, not the physical. You are God. Think like this always. Do not think about the body. The body comes and goes; for it there is birth and there is death. But you are not the body. Body is just rust and dust. Think only of God. Love God. 

Devotee: Swami, how can we love something we don't understand? 

Baba: Develop self-confidence, then love will follow; it will come naturally from within. And that way the love will be pure. First comes self-confidence, that is the foundation. Then comes self-satisfaction. It is like the wall. Next comes self-sacrifice, it is like the roof. Finally the house is complete and the Indweller is installed inside; that is self-realization. It starts with self-confidence and it ends with realizing the Self. That Self is you. It is everything. It is God. That is who you really are. 

Devotee: Does self-confidence mean confidence in the Self? 

Baba: Yes, self-confidence is confidence in the Atma; it is an unwavering love for the Divinity within you. That is very important. What will help you to develop that confidence? Be equalminded, be satisfied with what you have. Be happy. The secret of happiness is not in doing what you like but in liking what you have to do. That is a great truth. Always have complete faith in the indwelling God who takes care of everything. True greatness can only come from faith. 

Devotee: Lord, I want to arrive very early to You. What do I have to do? 

Baba: Through love, only through love. Love is everything. Love is God. Live in love. Start the day with love, spend the day with love, fill the day with love and end the day with love. That is the way to God. 

Devotee: How do we develop this selfless love? 

Baba: It all comes through God's Grace. Without Grace you cannot do anything. First do your duty and think about God all day from morning to evening. See everything as God. Be happy. Think, "O Lord, You are my everything. You are my goal. You are my breath." Do not think, "This is mine, that is mine." Instead think, "All is You. All is Yours." Think, "I am beyond the body. This body is just a water bubble. I am beyond the mind. This mind is just a mad monkey. I am the Atma. I and God are one. Before this body was formed I was there. After this body leaves I am there. Without this body I am still there. I am omnipresent. I am all." 

To reach this truth you have to do some spiritual practice. You have to inquire, "What is God? Who is God? Who am I?" Jesus spent twelve years in the desert; then he realized. You must also do some Sadhana. The first step in realization is to always think of God. Then after some years you will realize that you are one with God. In the beginning you can think, "The world is like a stage. I am only an actor. God is the director. All are His instruments, all are just actors. He is directing everything." But do not always remain at that level. Move on. Think, "I am the unchanging Atma, not this changing personality and body." 

Devotee: Shall we tell these things to others, Swami? 

Baba: Do not talk too much. First do some Sadhana. First do. Then be. Then you can talk. Do good, be good and see good. Do everything with love. After you develop your self-confidence and love for God then you can share your experiences with others. But it is a good rule to talk very little, even about God. In Sadhana there will be internal talk with God. You will give up all attachments and attach only to God. For this, purity of the heart is very important. Where there is no purity, there is no Unity. Without Unity you cannot attain Divinity. Then your life is just a waste. First purity, next Unity, then you realize your Divinity. 

Devotee: And purity comes from service? 

Baba: Yes. Purity comes from Seva... it comes from selfless love. All are one family, serve all... not just the Sai family, but the whole world family. All are brothers and sisters. All are one, be alike to everyone. That is Unity... the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of God. 

Interview with David Godman

With the kind permission of David Godman, below is an abridged extract from an interview with him conducted by Rob Sacks. David Godman is regarded as the foremost living authority on the life and teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi and has written and edited a number of books in this respect.



“I was born in 1953 in Stoke-on-Trent, a British city of about 300,000, located about halfway between Birmingham and Manchester. My father was a schoolmaster and my mother was a physiotherapist who specialised in treating physically handicapped children. Both of my parents are dead. I have one sister who is a year older than me. She is a former professional mountaineer who now teaches mountain and wilderness skills and occasionally leads groups to exotic and inaccessible places. My younger sister, now 43, teaches in a college in England, although nowadays she apparently spends most of her time monitoring the competence of other teachers, which I assume doesn't make her very popular.

I was educated at local schools and in 1972 won a place at Oxford University, where I did very little academic work, but had an enormous amount of fun. Sometime in my second year there I found myself getting more and more interested in Eastern spiritual traditions. I seemed to have an insatiable hunger for knowledge about them that resulted in massive bookstore bills, which I couldn't really afford, but not much satisfaction. Then, one day, I took home a copy of Arthur Osborne's The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi in his Own Words. Reading Ramana's words for the first time completely silenced me. My mind stopped asking questions, and it abandoned its search for spiritual information. It somehow knew that it had found what it was looking for.

I have to explain this properly. It wasn't that I had found a new set of ideas that I believed in. It was more of an experience in which I was pulled into a state of silence. In that silent space I knew directly and intuitively what Ramana's words were hinting and pointing at. Because this state itself was the answer to all my questions, and any other questions I might come up with, the interest in finding solutions anywhere else dropped away. I suppose I must have read the book in an afternoon, but by the time I put it down it had completely transformed the way I viewed myself and the world.

The experiences I was having made me understand how invalid were the academic techniques of acquiring and evaluating knowledge. I could see that the whole of academia was based on some sort of reductionism: separating something big into its little component parts, and then deriving conclusions about how the "big something" really worked. It's a reasonable approach for comprehending mechanical things, such as a car engine, but I understood - and knew by direct experience - that it was a futile way of gaining an understanding of oneself and the world we appear to be in. When I went through my academic textbooks after having these experiences, there was such a massive resistance both to their contents and to the assumptions that lay behind them, I knew I could no longer even read them, much less study them in order to pass exams. It wasn't an intellectual judgement on their irrelevance, it was more of a visceral disgust that physically prevented me from reading more than a few lines.

David Godman, Tiruvannamalai June 2010

I dropped out in my final year at Oxford, went to Ireland with my Ramana books, and spent about six months reading Ramana's teachings and practicing his technique of self-inquiry. I had just inherited a small amount from my grandmother so I didn't need to work that year. I rented a small house in a rural area, grew my own food, and spent most of my time meditating. This was 1975. At the end of that year my landlady reclaimed her house and I went to Israel. I wanted to go somewhere sunny and warm for the winter, and then return to Ireland the following spring. I worked on a kibbutz on the Dead Sea and while I was there decided I could have a quick trip to India and Ramanasramam before I went back to Ireland. I figured out the costs and realised I couldn't afford it unless another 200 Pounds appeared from somewhere. I decided that if Bhagavan wanted me to go to India, he would send me the money. Within a week I received a letter from my grandmother's lawyer saying that he had just found some shares that she owned, and that my share of them would be 200 Pounds. I came to India, expecting to stay six weeks, and have been here more or less ever since.”


Questions:

RS: You said that you spent six months practicing self-inquiry based on your reading of Sri Ramana's books. Were you able to get a good understanding of the method from your reading? I ask because this seems to be difficult for most people. Did you need to modify your understanding later when you went to Sri Ramanasramam?

DG: I did find it hard to practise self-inquiry merely by reading books simply because I did not have access to much material. I had at that time only managed to find Arthur Osborne's three books on Ramana. Though they explained most aspects of the teachings quite well, I don't think that Osborne had a good understanding of self-inquiry. He seemed to think that concentrating on the heart center on the right side of the chest while doing self-inquiry was an integral part of the process. When I later read Bhagavan's answers in books such as ‘Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi’ and ‘Day by Day with Bhagavan’, I realized that he specifically advised against this particular practice. Overall, though, I got a good grounding from these books. I had a passion to follow the practice and a deep faith in Bhagavan. I think that this elicited grace from Bhagavan and kept me on the right path. If the attitude is right and if the practice is intense enough, it doesn't really matter what you do when you meditate. The purity of intent and purpose carries you to the right place.

RS: If someone wants to learn self-inquiry, what should they read?

DG: I don't know what book I would recommend to new people who want to start self-inquiry. ‘Be As You Are’ is certainly a good start since it was designed for Westerners who have had no previous exposure to Bhagavan and his teachings. There is also a book by Sadhu Om: ‘The Path of Sri Ramana Part One’. It is a little dogmatic in places but it covers all the basic points well. Self-inquiry is a bit like swimming or riding a bicycle. You don't learn it from books. You learn it by doing it again and again till you get it right.

Arunachala brought me here in the same way it brought Ramana here. And it has kept me here for most of the last 25 years. I have occasionally left to be with teachers in other places: Nisargadatta Maharaj in Bombay, Lakshmana Swamy in Andhra Pradesh, Papaji in Lucknow, but Arunachala has always brought me back here afterwards. It's my spiritual center of gravity. I can make an effort to be somewhere else if I feel I would spiritually benefit from it, but when I stop making that effort, the natural pull of Arunachala brings me back here again. It's the only place in the world that I feel truly at home.

Arunachala has been attracting people for well over 1,500 years. Ramana liked to quote a saint of about 500 years ago who wrote in one of his verses, "Arunachala, you draw to yourself all those who are rich in jnana tapas." Jnana tapas can be translated as the extreme efforts made by those who are in search of liberation.

There are dozens of teachers nowadays who tour the world touting their experiences and their teachings. Many of them trace their lineage back to Ramana Maharshi via Papaji. And where did Ramana Maharshi's power and authority come from? From Arunachala, his own Guru and God. He explicitly stated that it was the power of Arunachala that brought about his own Self-realization. He wrote poems extolling its greatness, and in the last 54 years of his life, he never moved more than a mile and a half away from its base. So, it is the power of Arunachala that is the true source of the power that now appears as "advaita messengers" all over the world.

For me, this is the world's great power spot. Arunachala has brought about the liberation of several advanced seekers in the past few centuries, and its radiant power remains even today as a beacon for those who want to find out who they really are.

If you ask people, ‘What are Sri Ramana’s teachings?’ who have become acquainted with his life and work, you might get several answers such as "advaita" or "self-inquiry." I don't think Sri Ramana's teachings were either a belief system or a philosophy, such as advaita, or a practice, such as self-inquiry.

Sri Ramana himself would say that his principal teaching was silence, by which he meant the wordless radiation of power and grace that he emanated all the time. The words he spoke, he said, were for the people who didn't understand these real teachings. Everything he said was therefore a kind of second-level teaching for people who were incapable of dissolving their sense of "I" in his powerful presence. You may understand his words, or at least think that you do, but if you think that these words constitute his teachings, then you have really misunderstood him.

I have come to the conclusion that Bhagavan brought me to Tiruvannamalai to write about him and his disciples. I have learned this the hard way. I went back to England twenty years ago, hoping to earn enough money to come back to India and not do any work here. Nobody was willing to hire me to do anything. I even flunked an interview for picking up litter in the London zoo. But as soon as I had the idea of writing a book about Bhagavan, everything fell into place. Though I had never written anything in my life, I was given a contract by a major publisher and sent back to India to write about him. That's how, ‘Be As You Are’ came into existence.

Whenever I do work on Bhagavan or his disciples, everything goes well. Whenever I try to do something else, so many problems come up, nothing ever gets accomplished or completed.

Having learned this from experience, I have now surrendered to this destiny. I enjoy the work, and many, many people seem to appreciate the books. I asked Papaji years ago whether writing all these books on Bhagavan was a distraction for the mind.

He replied, "Any association with Bhagavan is a blessing." I took that as an instruction to carry on with the work.”

To read more about David Godman and to view a list of his published works, please visit his website at:
http://www.davidgodman.org/

Swami Nithyananda Rebuttal Interview

This Saturday, March 13th, Swami Nithyananda in an interview at Haridwar with “Times Now” spoke about the now infamous sting tape of himself with actress Ranjitha. To read a short article of this interview go to this link here.

You can watch the whole 16.14 minute interview in the embedded YouTube video below.

Who is the Guru - interview with V.Ganesan

V. Ganesan grew up till the age of fourteen in the presence of his great uncle, Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi. After the mahanirvana of Bhagavan in 1950, Ganesan went on to get a Master’s Degree in Philosophy. After his return to Arunachala, he was able to absorb reminiscences of Bhagavan that had never been recorded before. In addition to this, his close contacts with saints, sages and seers like Yogi Ramsuratkumar, Nisargadatta Maharaj and J. Krishnamurti, helped him to deepen and widen his understanding of the essence of Bhagavan’s Teachings.

In the following interview V. Ganesan is asked:

“It appears essential to meet a guru and stay with that guru. Who is the guru? What is the guru's role? How to recognise a true guru?”

His reply starts: “I am is the Guru, only Guru, because he is the only permanent Truth. All other Gurus are imaginations.”

Click on this link to watch and listen to his response to: 'Who is the Guru?'

Interview with V. Ganesan

We have been supplied with the following information, which we are sharing with readers of Arunachala Grace.

V. Ganesan, will be sharing stories about the life and teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi with an interviewer this Tuesday, the 15th July at 11 a.m. (USA Eastern Time Zone = GMT -5) on WCOM 103.5 FM Carrboro (North Carolina, U.S).

Or live world wide streaming webcast at:

http://www.communityradio.coop/Programs/touchstones.html

Archives @:

http://www.wordtrade.com/essays/touchstones/touchstonesA.htm

V.Ganesan

V. Ganesan grew up till the age of fourteen in the presence of his great uncle, Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi. After the mahanirvana of Bhagavan in 1950, Ganesan went on to get a Master’s Degree in Philosophy. After to return to Arunachala, where he was able to absorb reminiscences of Bhagavan that had never been recorded before. In addition to this, his close contacts with saints, sages and seers like Yogi Ramsuratkumar, Nisargadatta Maharaj and J. Krishnamurti, helped him to deepen and widen his understanding of the essence of Bhagavan’s Teachings.

V. Ganesan is a wonderful story teller with a great memory and a very clear insight into the teachings of Bhagavan. So to those not familiar with V. Ganesan, the interview will be fascinating and highly recommended.

Swami meets Quo Vadis

During Sri Nannagaru’s recent visit to Arunachala, he kindly agreed to Quo Vadis' request of a meeting, at which he answered the following questions:

1.Could you explain the core elements in your teachings?

2.How do you think that we can contribute to bring peace and reconciliations between people of different religions?

3.At Quo Vadis we like to help and facilitate people find “the right way” in their life. Do you have any suggestions on how to do that?

4.What is for you the most important teaching of Jesus Christ?

About 15 members of the Quo Vadis Forum met with Sri Nannagaru in his room at his Ashram last week and were grateful for the opportunity to listen to the words of this realised Advaitic Master.

Sri Nannagaru stated that his teachings were all based upon those of Sri Ramana Maharshi and Self Enquiry. Sri Nannagaru hails from Jinnuru, Andhra Pradesh but it was here at Arunachala (after Sri Ramana's samadhi) that Swamiji attained self-realisation.

He stated that the most important parts of Jesus Christ's teachings were his example of tolerance and love and "do unto others as they would do unto you".

Sri Nannagaru also stated that all religions have the same aim; that being the search for Truth. Probably one of the most surprising and controversial statements made by Sri Nannagaru at the meeting, was when he sternly stated that; "90% of educated people are self-centred (i.e. selfish)".

To find out more about this spiritual Master, you can go to his website at here.